Dear Matthew, dear all,

this is something I always "struggle" with: Does the description within <profileDesc> relate to the text of the TEI file or to the text of the document represented, i.e. described, transcribed etc, in the TEI file?

If it were the latter should the Guidelines express this better by opposing it to the <revisionStmt>. And I would wonder about the relation between <creation> on the one hand and <origin> on the other.


Torsten Schassan - Digitale Editionen - Abteilung Handschriften und Sondersammlungen
Herzog August Bibliothek, Postfach 1364, D-38299 Wolfenbuettel, Tel.: +49-5331-808-130 (Fax -165)

 Von:   Matthew James Driscoll <[log in to unmask]> 
 An:   <[log in to unmask]> 
 Gesendet:   20.06.2016 13:45 
 Betreff:   Re: palimpsest 

Dear Marion,
 The most obvious way of dealing with palimpsests, it seems to me, is to use the <listChange> element in the TEI Header, as in the following (made-up) example:
               <change xml:id="UT" notBefore="0801" notAfter="0900" target="#UT-Item01 #MS101-01r-UT #UT-text01">Original writing, s. IX</change>
               <change xml:id="OT" notBefore="1251" notAfter="1300" target="#OT-Item02 #MS101-01r-OT #OT-text02">Overtext, s. XIII 2/2</change>
 One can then also point to these "changes" in the MS description:
                   <msItem xml:id="UT-Item01" change="#UT">
                      <locus from="1r" to="1v"/>
                      <title>Medical treatise</title>
                      <textLang mainLang="gr"/>
                   <msItem xml:id="OT-Item02" change="#OT">
                      <locus from="1r" to="1v"/>
                      <textLang mainLang="la"/>
 In the facsimile:
       <surface xml:id="MS101-01r" ulx="0" uly="0" lrx="700" lry="1000" change="#UT">
          <zone xml:id="MS101-01r-UT" rotate="90" ulx="0" uly="0" lrx="700" lry="1000">
             <graphic url="graphic-01r-UT.jpg"/>
          <zone xml:id="MS101-01r-OT" ulx="0" uly="0" lrx="700" lry="1000" change="#OT">
             <graphic url="graphic-01r-OT.jpg"/>   
 And in the transcription:
          <div xml:id="UT-text01" change="#UT">
             <pb xml:id="UT-f1r" facs="#MS101-01r-UT"/>
             <!-- text of undertext here -->
          <div xml:id="OT-text01" change="#OT">
             <pb xml:id="OT-f1r" facs="#MS101-01r-OT"/>
             <!-- text of overtext here -->
 Slightly belt-and-braces perhaps, but it certainly makes clear what is what.
 All the best,
 M. J. Driscoll
 Arnamagnæan Institute
 University of Copenhagen
From: TEI (Text Encoding Initiative) public discussion list [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Marion LAMÉ [[log in to unmask]]
 Sent: 20 June 2016 00:22
 To: [log in to unmask]
 Subject: palimpsest
Dear colleagues,

 In order to follow already existing habits, we are looking for some examples of encoding for palimpsest texts, that is:
 - erasing intentionally and entirely or most of the surface of the TBO: some symbols are still observable and eventually readable on this/these older layer(s).
 - reusing the same surface to write another text, sometimes totally different from the previous one: this most recent layer on the manuscript is usually more readable than the older one / the olders.
 Palimpsest texts have a "semantic baggage" that is a bit different from similar writing processes such as the two following examples:
 - erasing part of the written surface (e.g.: a word or a letter) and rewrite for correcting a mistake for instance; in such an example both writings belong to the same layer and the writing process belongs to a same intention / moment / production.
 - erasing and leave this textual phenomena visible such as in the cases of damnatio memoriae on some inscriptions.

We have searched in the Mark up list and TEI-L list archives and we have not found yet any previous messages that was convincing enough and definitive practice. The most interesting message seems to suggest to use the <altidentifier> with a @type + a value  such as "palimpsest". But it also seems to refer to another description process, that is when one should collect several versions of a same text from various TBO.;ae9cfb92.1102

Could several <div> and / or <ab> be used to encode the overlapping texts on a same TBO + some attribute (@type ?) + a value ("palimpsest" ?) ? 
 What are your habits describe each layer of texts that are overlapping in a palimpsest manuscript? 

 Would some of you be kind enough to share their previous experiences (XML code and / or links), please?

Marion Lamé