On 7 Jun 2016 18:44, "Jim Henry" <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 1:21 PM, And Rosta <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > On 7 June 2016 at 01:37, [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]> > > wrote: > >> 3. Does a conlang maker invent a language? > > > If an authored conlang whose inner workings are not fully specified, which > > is invented by the author, forms the basis for the development of a pidgin > > conlang, I argue that the author has not invented the pidgin conlang. > > Zamenhof might agree with you -- he generally described himself as > the initiator (iniciatinto) of Esperanto, rather than author, creator, > or inventor. > > I'm not entirely happy with the term "pidgin conlang" though, as used > conlangs like Esperanto, Lojban and Itlani don't have the grammatical > structure typical of pidgins. Toki Pona probably comes closest, but > it's not typical of used conlangs. But I see that you need a word to > distinguish those conlangs that only exist as a consciously created > design, vs. those that also exist in the unsconscious minds of one or > more speakers, allowing them to be spoken -- and in most if not all > cases, have additional unconsciously-developed traits that weren't in > the original conscious design. Pidgin conlang seems to imply that the > conlangs you refer to have simpler grammar than other conlangs, when > in fact the reverse is typically the case. Maybe "living conlangs" > would be more accurate? Or "live conlangs" or "spoken conlangs" (but > that seems to contrast them with signed or purely-written conlangs). I shared your reservations about the term "pidgin", but on balance found it the most suitable term I could think of, because the definition of pidginhood is not being a native language. If a pidgin conlang became a native language of its speech community then it would become a creole (and a creole conlang). I agree that some term in the spirit of the ones you suggest would serve to generalize over pidgin and creole conlangs, and in many contexts would be more relevant than terms that classify conlangs by nativeness. --And.