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You learn to chew by chewing. I take your point that different folks learn in different ways, and I’m prepared to believe that for some people—especially people with a fair amount of previous programming experience—the best way to start is by looking under the hood. But I also know folks in English and History departments and have spent a lifetime among them. Some of them would like to learn enough about TEI to work with it. But for most of those editing an ODD is absolutely the las thing they want to do first or, for that matter, ever. They want something that “just works,” especially at the beginning. 

That may be regrettable, but it is so, and if we want to assure the TEI a well-recognized and often used place in the eocystem of English or History in an increasingly digital world, we’d  better start form that fact. 

On 7/11/16, 2:45 PM, "TEI (Text Encoding Initiative) public discussion list on behalf of Lou Burnard" <[log in to unmask] on behalf of [log in to unmask]> wrote:

By that argument we would never learn to chew.

Please read my post, Martin, and you will see that I am not saying that 
this is not about what's best for your two your old grandchildren, nor 
is it about what's best for Konrad Adenaur, whoever he may be. It is 
saying that different kinds of students exist in the world. Perhaps they 
don't in your world, but they do in mine.


On 11/07/16 21:40, Martin Mueller wrote:
> Konrad Adenauer was fond of saying “man muss die Menschen nehmen wie sie kommen, dene es gibt keine anderen” or ‘you must take people as they come for there are no others,;’ If I think of people in my domain—English Literature—and imagine them doing something with TEI, I’m pretty sure that most of them would not want to start their experience with TEI by editing an ODD, and if you insisted on that you’d drive most of them away. They want to have something that “just works.” And as they work with it they gradually understand how this whole thing works. I think that Martin Holmes is closer to the experience of most people when he puts the emphasis on first doing and gradually understanding as you work with it. Since I’ve just spent ten days observing the linguistic habits of two two-year-old grandchildren, I’m inclined to think that “learning by doing” runs pretty deep in the human genome.
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> Horace praises Homer for taking the reader “medias in res” rather than starting “ab ovo.”  I would start with encoding “Mary had a little lamb”—a surprisingly complex structure—rather than with editing an ODD.
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> On 7/11/16, 9:06 AM, "TEI (Text Encoding Initiative) public discussion list on behalf of Lou Burnard" <[log in to unmask] on behalf of [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>    Another essential feature for me would be the ability to access a
> pre-scripted sequence of transformations etc. in the way that oXygen
> currently does when generating RNG and XHTML from an ODD file. It's
> currently done with an Ant script, but any scripting language will do. I
> routinely do an exercise which involves editing an ODD, generating a
> schema, using it to create a new file, e da capo. This is easy and
> seamless in oXyGen: doing it  via the oXGarage web interface would be
> cumbersome and confusing.
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> I'm less persuaded of the essentialness of being able to package things
> up in an oXyGen project file. For me, this is something that comes later
> on in a project, when its constituents are more stable: it's not
> something I'd expect beginners to be exposed to. Beginners need to know
> what the various components of the process are, not be protected from them.
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