On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 12:43 AM, A Walker Scott <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > This time **I'M** going to agree with And as well. What English pronouns do > may have been case in the past, but not today. If English pronouns had > case, moving them would NOT allow an "object pronoun" to function as > subject. It would simply be fronting the object for emphasis. But moving > them DOES allow an "object pronoun" to function as subject or a "subject > pronoun" to function as the DO of the sentence. Therefore we aren't dealing > with true case anymore. It's something else. > > As far as I know, and as was implied in the original post, in all the major modern contemporary Englishes both formal and colloquial, you're flatly not allowed to put objective-case pronouns in the subject position. (An exception is in coordinated phrases, where it's okay to say "Me and her went", which works informally.) But examples like Raymond Brown's "Us saw they yesterday" break mainstream norms, at least from my (Northeast American) perspective. What I agree the norm-breaking examples DO show is that when there is a conflict then position indeed trumps case in native-speaker intuitions. But I don't agree that these examples show that case is inoperative. They just show that case has been relegated as a secondary feature reinforcing word order. In a conflict, word order prevails over case marking, but that doesn't mean case is dead in English; it's just vestigial.