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On 16/09/2017 02:46, Mike S. wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 3:25 PM, Raymond Brown wrote: [snip]
> 
>> 
>> So can anyone enlighten me?  What is Ceqli's date?  Why does
>> Okrent give it as 1996?
>> 
> 
> I don't have answers, but maybe this will help.

[snip]

> So, my speculation is that Ceqli was first published on the *WWW* 
> before the web counter was added, maybe sometime in 1996.  Geocities 
> started in mid-1995, so it couldn't have been before that.  The Web 
> counter got added in Feb. 1997.  At any rate, I am guessing Arika 
> Okrent gets her 1996 date, one way or another, from this Geocities 
> site.

Thanks - that makes sense.

> Whether there were versions of Ceqli floating around and being
> shared by email or FTP or something prior to the Geocities site,
> though, I can't say.

That I would like to know.  Arika Okrent seems inconsistent with dates
of Internet published conlangs.  For example, she dates And Rosta's
Livagian as 1991 - five years before the date she gives for Ceqli.  But
AFAIK And has not published the language and in an email I recall he was
puzzled by Okrent's date.  Possibly a snippet of "Ur-Livagian" in an
email or something?

Also I cannot find gua\spi listed at all by Okrent, though that language
was certainly published on the www:
http://www.jfcarter.net/~jimc/guaspi/

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On 16/09/2017 04:41, Gleki Arxokuna wrote:
> 2017-09-15 22:25 GMT+03:00 Raymond Brown:
> 
>> 
>> 2. gua\spi language borrowed is phonotactics from Ceqli
>>> 
>> 
>> If this is so, and I have no reason to doubt it, then something is 
>> wrong with dates on my website page.
>> 
> 
> Touching what is now history (guess nothing wrong in publishing
> this) ... in September 2012 in a private conversation Rex replied to
> me when I mentioned gua\spi: "I like to think Carter got the
> word-shape idea from Ceqli." So that's it.

Thanks - that's helpful.

Rex would clearly not have likedd to think that surely unless it was
possible for Jsames Carter to have been aware of Ceqli.  This must push
the date back from 1996 to sometime prior to the Autumn of 1991.

> Given such a lack of records I can only assume that either Ceqli
> came from antediluvian world where people used to use flammable paper
> or fragile clay tablets

While certainly paper records suffer, clay tablets are great survivors,
e.g. cuneiform and Linear B.     :)

> or at least phonotactics is independent or comes from a third 
> source.
> 

Possible - but would Rex have referred to this third source as Ceqli?

Maybe I'd better find time to trawl the ancient archive fragments.

Ray