Friend just posted this interesting rebuttal to the "mental illness"
response whenever there is a mass shooting:

"Believing that mental illness causes mass shootings can feel reassuring.
It helps to believe that only a mentally ill person could do something so
horrific. We also think that if someone is mentally ill, they can be
identified. But the evidence suggests that mental illness only causes a
small fraction of gun violence. And even if some shooters have undiagnosed
mental illness, there is no evidence to suggest that they could have been
diagnosed prior to their gun violence or that such a diagnosis would
increase the predictive validity of a diagnosis on gun violence."

I will add few links of my own:

The mentally ill are stigmatized enough, blaming them for these killings
seems unfair.

Mike Falk

On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 12:18 PM, Jeff Pender <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> I have a desire to put in my 2 cents as well, considering this is perhaps
> one of the issues I feel most passionately about.   This is a
> multi-factorial problem, obviously.   Not only is it a problem with
> “quality and quantity”, but also with “culture".
> By quality and quantity, I am speaking about what people own, and how much
> they own.  Does anyone outside the military need a semi automatic weapon
> for anything?  No.  Does anyone need a bump stock?  No.  Does anyone need
> an extended magazine?  No.  If you require any of these things for the lame
> ass excuse of “home defense”, you either need to move, or take some classes
> and become a far better shot with a handgun.    Further, do people need the
> insane quantity of weapons and ammunition they tend to accumulate?  No, but
> this is a secondary problem to the types of weapons they own.    We can’t
> own a bazooka, so “we” understand that limits can exist, so we need to
> extend those limits to the things listed above.
> The culture issue, to me, is even worse.  In the spirit of full
> disclosure, I despise guns. I don’t own one, and have no plans on ever
> owning one.  I won’t allow one in my home, period.  I feel pretty damn safe
> with my 3 large dogs, thank you. I will admit that I pull away socially
> from people once I learn they are big time gun enthusiasts.  I won’t spend
> time with people that I know are carrying a gun on their person, or in
> their car.  I can’t help it, and I don’t feel bad about it for even 1
> second.  We just see the world too differently, although I don’t think it
> makes them a bad person.  In my anecdotal experience, these serious
> “enthusiasts” share some similar traits - they own a shit ton of guns,
> ridiculous ammunition that no target shooter or home defense person really
> needs, but most importantly perhaps, a “macho” response to their guns.
> This is the thing that needs to change.
> Guns are celebrated in our country as both cool and macho.  Decide where
> to place the blame - video games, movies, athletes, musicians, etc.   But,
> our politicians are part of this problem, and perhaps the largest part.
> Since they are the ones that make the laws (and take the
> bribes…err…donations), we need them to stop believing this more than anyone
> else. They will never change the gun laws until the culture of how we view
> guns changes.  Think back to that insane video Ted Cruz made where he
> wrapped bacon around the muzzle of an AR-15, and after shooting for a
> while, ate the bacon that the hot muzzle cooked.  It was horrifying how he
> celebrated that AR-15….just so he could get another donation from gun
> lovers.  Change the culture of how they are viewed (and then campaign
> finance laws) and the needle can be moved on this issue.
> Israel and Swiss citizens own guns at incredibly high rates, but they are
> viewed as a fact of life, not as a point of pride or machismo.   Culture
> changes are very slow to occur, but that is what is needed first, I think.
> Without it, laws won’t change, and neither will the desire to own these
> weapons and accessories.   Think of other social changes/regulations….they
> were slow — seat belt laws, speed limits, voting rights, marriage equality,
> marijuana legalization, etc etc.   They take decades, sadly. We are a
> country that seems to have extreme difficulty doing the right thing without
> it taking insanely long. It drives me crazy.
> I truly hope that this school shooting has occurred around student’s ages
> that can possibly make a difference in that these students are at an age to
> become true activists, unlike when it happens to younger children.  A wave
> has to start, and I think it is most likely to start with these young
> people, as long as we “older” people support them…both financially and
> vocally…and in our voting patterns.
> Jeff
> > On Feb 18, 2018, at 7:42 AM, Terence Bergmann <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Joe
> >
> > I disagree about ‘strict gun control laws’ here having anything to do
> with it .  Either you or I could have a new hunting rifle in a week or two
> in Canada.  If you look at the school shootings or the Vegas massacre these
> are not people who acquired their guns and went slaughtering.  These guns
> were acquired and the armamentarium prepped and the plans made.  Canadian
> laws would not stop this.
> >
> > We have a different culture here in Canada.  Guns are not toted around
> in public.  Thankfully the 49th parallel prevented the ‘western’ mentality
> from flourishing on our side of the border.  I don’t know why.
> >
> > The challenge to end ‘their’ problem is that once the bad guys are armed
> with illegal guns how do you stop the populace from wanting to have legal
> guns?
> >
> > Somehow other countries can have legal weapons, such as Swiss adults all
> keeping their weapons at home after their years of mandatory service, yet
> they don’t kill each other with them.  Somehow a well armed militia there
> does not lead to violence.
> >
> > I have lots of questions, but I don’t know the answers.
> >
> > Terence
> >
> > On Feb 17, 2018, at 2:43 PM, Joe Nemeth, Dr <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
> >
> > Disclaimer: I live in Canada and  love our very strict gun control laws.
> >
> >
> > For more information, send mail to [log in to unmask] with the
> message: info PED-EM-L
> > The URL for the PED-EM-L Web Page is:
> >       
> For more information, send mail to [log in to unmask] with the
> message: info PED-EM-L
> The URL for the PED-EM-L Web Page is:

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