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Thank you! This gives me another few things to look into. Lostlangs 
weren't what I was thinking of when I posed the question, but your Albic 
looks like it's as well-done as what I was looking for. Novegradian and 
Alashian as well seem well worth reading about. Ill Bethisad's languages 
definitely are a bit less realistic than what I had in mind (^_^)

 >This prompts me to wonder what South Germanic might have been, under a
primary quadripartite division of Germanic. Where would it have been
spoken; what might have been some of its distinctive characteristics; what
might have been its fate in the last two millennia? It's not a question I
myself can suggest any intelligent answers to.

I could see a Germanic language popping up in the Balkans (Bulgaria-ish, 
most likely) at some point in the last couple of centuries BC. I 
wouldn't have the slightest idea what it would look like, in part thanks 
to most of its neighbours being themselves largely lost (so no data on 
possible contact changes); but I would imagine there'd be some Greek and 
especially Slavic influence on its later development. You might see 
later Germanic or Slavic raids pushing its speakers into Greece, but it 
would have to survive the Roman re-Hellenisation policies of the 700s 
and 800s AD.

It's no less realistic than the actual, historical Anatolian Celts 
(whence the name 'Galatia'); though I imagine whatever they spoke died 
in the face of Greek pretty quickly.


On 2018/02/06 14:59, Jörg Rhiemeier wrote:
> Hallo conlangers!
>
> On 06/02/2018 21:23, Aidan Aannestad wrote:
>
>> The recent discussion of Raymond Brown's (really quite lovely)
>> Britainese has gotten me wondering who else out there is engaged in
>> altlanging projects. I'm aware of Carrajina and Liburnese as (I think)
>> other examples in the Romance family; I've missed any discussion of
>> any other such projects if there has been any.
> You are probably aware of Ill Bethisad, a collaborative alternative
> history world which crystallized around Andrew Smith's Brithenig (like
> Britainese, a Romance language of Britain, but the approach is a
> different one, and the language quite different from Britainese); see
> http://ib.frath.net/ - there are many Romance conlangs and a few others
> out there.
>
> A guy named Carlos Thompson had an alternative America full of conlangs
> when I joined the list, but I haven't heard of him for a very long time.
> The thing was named "Zera", and all I remember are some language names
> such as Hangkerim and Lemuraki.
>
> Then there is Novegradian by Martin Posthumus
> (https://www.veche.net/novegradian), a nicely-crafted "North Slavic"
> language. Others also have created North Slavic languages, of varying
> qualities. (Well, if there is West, East and South Slavic, there
> "obviously has to be" North Slavic as well, all of them thought. Martin
> Posthumus also has a Semitic language of Cyprus, Alashian
> (https://www.veche.net/alashian).
>
> My conlangs are mostly altlangs, too, though the difference of my
> alternative world from the real world is limited to the survival of some
> hypothetical linguistic lineages that went extinct in the real world. In
> 2004, I set up a collaborative framework for such languages, the "League
> of Lost Languages" (LLL), whose home page is on FrathWiki -
> http://www.frathwiki.com/League_of_Lost_Languages
>
> Hence, this kind of altlangs are called "lostlangs" in these quarters.
> However, I seem to be the only person left who is still actively working
> on his contributions to that framework. The flagship of my lostlangs is
> Old Albic on which I have been working since 2002 or so, but I have
> ideas for various other languages related or otherwise connected to it.
> Old Albic is a member of a family I call "Hesperic", which I fancy to be
> related to Indo-European and have been spoken in much of western Europe
> before the spread of IE proper. A second family, "Tommian", related to
> Kartvelian in a similar way as Hesperic is to IE, and meant to represent
> the (in reality utterly unknown) language of the first Neolithic farmers
> of Central Europe and its descendants, is currently taking shape in my mind.
>
> Another of my altlangs is Roman Germanech, a Romance language of
> Germany, made in 2001 and originally meant for Ill Bethisad, but now
> representing a tiny pocket of Romance in southwestern Germany as a
> lostlang. From my current vantage point, it is not particularly well done.
>
> There are quite a few lostlang ideas in my head waiting to be explored,
> but first, I need to get Old Albic done!
>
>> I personally have been working on a family of Japanese dialects for an
>> alt-historical western North America that I hope is somewhat close to
>> the standards of realism Britainese adheres to (though I'm far from as
>> well-versed in my topic as Raymond is in his, and he's got a bit more
>> info to work with than I do). These aren't separate languages from
>> Japanese Japanese; they split off between about 1650 and 1750 and so
>> retain almost complete mutual intelligibility. I've got an in-progress
>> Google doc
>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BYKIWUGspdV1hte52e_pneSuI5l3OV66njEL5r1tAhY/edit?usp=sharing>
>> that I'd love to get some comments on, if anyone has the time and
>> inclination.
> An interesting project, I must say!
>
>> I'd also love to hear about anyone else's attempts at high-realism
>> altlanging. Any projects outside of Romance, or outside of IE entirely
>> like mine? I thoroughly enjoyed reading through Raymond's pages about
>> Britainese, and I bet I'd enjoy yours too!
> I try to be highly realistic in my languages. For Old Albic and the
> Hesperic family, I do research into substratum loanwords in western
> European IE languages, the changes of Insular Celtic languages away from
> the "Common IE" model, and into the prehistory of PIE. Quite a lot of
> effort for a handful of conlangs, but I want to do something really,
> really good, and to me this is fun and fascinating! By now, I am perhaps
> one of the most knowledgeable persons on the subject of prehistoric
> European languages before the spread of Indo-European ;)
>
> Few altlangs, though, attain the quality of Britainese. For instance,
> Brithenig, the starting point of Ill Bethisad, simply applies slightly
> modified sound changes of Welsh (starting with Proto-Celtic) to Latin.
> Most other Ill Bethisad Romance languages work the same way: Breathanach
> uses the sound changes from Proto-Celtic to Irish; Wenedyk those from
> Proto-Slavic to Polish; my own Roman Germanech (no longer in Ill
> Bethisad, but originally meant for it and very much in that spirit)
> applies the sound changes from Proto-Germanic to German. I have grown
> out of that!
>
> --
> ... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
> http://www.joerg-rhiemeier.de/Conlang/index.html
> "Bêsel asa Éam, a Éam atha cvanthal a cvanth atha Éamal." - SiM 1:1


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