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Hi all​​

On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 10:14 AM, Deiniol Jones <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:

> (Furthermore, I’m not sure how stable a
> ​​
> /ð/ without a contrasting /θ/ would be: while /ð/ is retained in all of
> OTL’s British languages, in each case it contrasts with the voiceless
> sound. The only European language that has /ð/ without /θ/ that springs to
> mind is Jerriais, and the change is a remarkably recent innovation- within
> the past two centuries at most, and not yet penetrating the entire speech
> community. IMHO, I would expect an Early Britainese /ð/ to merge with
> either /d/ or /z/ quite quickly.)
>

I don't think retaining
​
/ð/ without a contrasting /θ/ would be particularly strange - of the top of
my head, Fijian is one such language. Certainly no weirder than Sardinian
and South Italian /ɖɖ/. Where do you get the date for Jerriais' /ð/? It
seems to me (just from reading the Wikipedia articles) it might have arisen
any time since the split with Sercquais in the 16th century.

On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 1:09 PM, And Rosta <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> But how many Romance languages have dental fricatives in contrast with
> plosives in the first place? Spanish does exemplify merger of θ with s. PIE
> to Italic gives an example of th-fronting (dh to f).


​Proto-Italic must have kept the dental reflex of dh, as it became d
intervocalically in Latin. It certainly fronted everywhere else in the
family though.

It seems to me that in the early centuries of Britainese the Brittonic
> substrate and the dialect geography of early Romance are the key guides and
> constraints to determining the characteristics of early Britainese (that
> is, of British Romance), but to divine the lineaments of its development in
> the last millennium, we must recognize that chance and general tendencies
> of language change will have played a much larger role. While any given
> change is perhaps more likely to not occur than to occur, it is more likely
> that some occur than that none occur; to model a plausible contemporary
> Britainese, when it comes to possible changes, dice must be rolled.


​Certainly, or else the language will end up too conservative and/or too
similar to Norman and Picard. I think this will have more bearing on the
morphological and, more importantly, the lexical ​evolution. I'm sure Ray
is well aware of this, as he has explicitly described the phonology as
somewhat conservative.

​James​