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> Yet Frankish _þwalja_ became _toaille_ in Old French with initial [t].
>Why?  Had continental Germanic already begun th-stopping as early as the
>5th/6th centuries AD?

I would think this is due to the fact that [θ] is an allophone that only
occurs word-finally rather than a phoneme, correct?

On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 11:59 AM, Raymond Brown <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:

> On 26/02/2018 16:27, David McCann wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 15:25:48 +0000 Raymond Brown wrote:
>>
>> Yet Frankish _þwalja_ became _toaille_ in Old French with initial
>>> [t]. Why?  Had continental Germanic already begun th-stopping as
>>> early as the 5th/6th centuries AD?
>>>
>>
>> No.
>>
>> The Norse runes are a reduced set, using the same characters for
>> voiced and voiceless stops, and the one rune for /u ü o ɔ ö w/, but
>> they kept the rune thorn for /θ/. It still occured in 13th century
>> Sweden.
>>
>
> Yes, clearly Norse had /θ/ when Vikings were settling Iceland during the
> 9th century, and they still had it when they bequeath us our 3rd person
> plural pronouns   :)
>
> That it persisted longest among Nordic speakers on the continent is, I
> think, what I expected.
>
> Spelling changes show the loss of /θ/ in Germany. High German had
>> lostθ it by about 900,
>>
>
> Quite early, however.
>
> Low German gradually between the 11th and 14th centuries.
>>
>
> That's intersting.  It was during the 11th & 12th centuries that [θ] and
> [ð] was gradually being lost in Old French.   So even the shift from
> _þwalja_ to _toaille_ would be part of this same process.
>
> Thanks.  That's helping to clarify things.
>
> Ray
>