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About some examples on natural languages and other Conlangs, as you want.
And other extra things you could recommend to me.
Thx

> I've talked about a lot of things! What specifically do you want an
> example of? Or do you want me to go through a single case study
> language, or some such thing?
>
>
> On 2018/04/25 15:22, Space Unicorn J wrote:
> > Do you have any examples?
> >
> > <[log in to unmask]>
> >
> >> Syllable structure is actually a fascinating and complex topic; one
> >> which I'm sure I don't fully understand. (I mostly work with CV(V)
> >> structures in my own languages!) I'll try and summarise a bit of what I
> >> remember about it - and hopefully write something that's useful to
> >> conlangers of all levels.
> >>
> >> Syllable structure is, in short, what is allowed in a syllable, and
> >> where. It's typically schematised as a series of capital letters, where
> >> C means 'a consonant', V means 'a vowel', and parentheses indicate
> >> optionality. However, there's much, much more complexity than a simple
> >> statement such as 'this language allows (C)(C)V(V)(C)' would imply. For
> >> a brand new conlanger, that's about as far as you need to go, though -
> >> knowing to schematise it and fit your words to these structures, and
> >> further knowing that you mostly need a vowel or something acting like
> >> one in every syllable, is quite enough for a simple conlang.
> >>
> >> You can go much farther than that, though.
> >>
> >> At its most basic, a syllable is divided into two parts - an /onset/ and
> >> a /rime/. The onset is everything before the vowel; the rime is the
> >> vowel and everything after it. The rime is further divisible into the
> >> /nucleus/, which is the vowel or whatever's acting kind of like one, and
> >> the /coda/, which is the consonants following the vowel. Every syllable
> >> at minimum needs a nucleus, though it doesn't necessarily need a vowel
> >> to be the nucleus - see English 'doesn't' /dɜz.nt/, which has /n/ as its
> >> second syllable's nucleus.
> >>
> >> Typically - with a few exceptions - syllables are organised by what's
> >> called /sonority/, which is basically the perceptual salience or
> >> 'loudness' of sounds. The nucleus is the sonority peak, and sonority
> >> falls off towards the edges - indeed, in some theories, a syllable is
> >> explicitly defined as being the space between sonority low points. The
> >> sonority hierarchy is largely this, from most to least:
> >> - Vowels
> >> - Sonorant consonants (liquids and nasals)
> >> - Voiced fricatives
> >> - Voiceless fricatives
> >> - Stops
> >> Languages can vary on how far down the hierarchy a nucleus can be - some
> >> languages only allow vowels, English allows vowels and sonorants, and a
> >> couple Berber languages are famous for apparently allowing all the way
> >> down to stops. Within complex onsets and codas - again with a few
> >> exceptions - consonants are expected to become more sonorant closer to
> >> the nucleus. For example, the English word /trend/ exemplifies this -
> >> /t/ is less sonorous than /ɹ/, and /n/ is more sonorous than /d/. The
> >> biggest exceptions to this generalisation are /s z/ (and other coronal
> >> sibilants), which seem to be allowed outside lower-sonority consonants
> >> on both ends in quite a few languages, English being one - /strand/ is
> >> perfectly valid, even though the /s/ occurs outside the less-sonorous
> >> /t/. In some languages, word edges may allow for /extrasyllabic/
> >> consonants, which don't quite fit in a syllable - this allows for
> >> English words like 'act' with two stops in a row, which would be invalid
> >> inside a word without the /t/ becoming the onset of the next syllable.
> >>
> >> Sometimes the string of sounds provided by building a word from
> >> morphemes has sequences that can't be syllabified - for example, if you
> >> only allow CV and you get a word with two consonants in a row, you have
> >> a problem. This is where things like epenthesis come in - sounds can be
> >> added in phonologically to help make things work out right. You might
> >> find that a disallowed CC sequence is broken up by having a 'default'
> >> vowel like /a/ or /ə/ inserted between the two consonants, or that it's
> >> broken up by inserting a copy of a neighbouring vowel. Other repair
> >> strategies involve just deleting one of the consonants, or having them
> >> merge somehow (eg have /nt/ become /d/, with /n/'s voicing but /t/'s
> >> stop-ness).
> >>
> >> We often talk of syllables as having /weight/, which mostly means the
> >> amount of stuff put into the rime. Weight is typically quantified into
> >> units called /morae/, which are (basically) a measure of the time it
> >> takes to say a certain syllable. Typically, one V or CV (or CCV etc)
> >> syllable is one mora; (C)VV and (C)VC are two morae, and (C)VVC is
> >> three; though exactly how things are counted can vary by language, and
> >> many languages distinguish between one ('light') and more-than-one
> >> ('heavy') and don't really care about exactly how many. Codas with more
> >> than one consonant may or may not count for more morae than the simple
> >> presence of a coda would add.
> >>
> >> Weight is relevant in several ways. First, languages can have maximum
> >> syllable weights. For example, a language may allow (C)VV and (C)VC but
> >> not (C)VVC, even though it does "have phonemic vowel length" - you can't
> >> simply switch out a short vowel for a long vowel or diphthong, because
> >> long vowels and diphthongs are associated with more structural positions
> >> than a short vowel is. You may also find position-based weight
> >> restrictions - for example, the last syllable of any word may be
> >> prohibited from being heavy; or it may allow an extrasyllabic consonant,
> >> as in Arabic, which allows (C)VVC only word-finally and nowhere else.
> >> Second, weight has various prosodic consequences. In a language with
> >> phonemic tone, a heavy syllable - especially one with a complex nucleus
> >> rather than just a coda - provides more morae for tones to attach to,
> >> and contour tones may require or cause a vowel to be long to fit all the
> >> parts of the tone. In a language with phonemic stress, stress tends to
> >> correlate with weight, and the language might have rules about heavy
> >> syllables attracting stress (Latin's stress rule works this way), or
> >> stressed syllables acquiring weight (one analysis has Norwegian and
> >> Swedish doing this). Since stress (including secondary stress) tends to
> >> proceed on an alternating stressed-unstressed-stressed-etc pattern, the
> >> syllables between stresses (again, including secondary stress) may be
> >> obligatorily light - or heavy syllables may cause deviations from the
> >> alternating pattern (as seems to happen in English).
> >>
> >> Going further down the rabbit hole (and this is the part I suggest
> >> beginning conlangers really stop before), you can begin to explore
> >> restrictions on what consonants can occur where in a syllable. For
> >> example, codas may lose voicing distinctions, or onsets may restrict the
> >> combinations of certain sounds. Autosegmental phonology explains this
> >> through the concept of 'feature licensing', where phonemic features are
> >> assigned to the syllable as a whole, and codas may license additional
> >> features. My conlang Emihtazuu only licenses nasality as a coda feature,
> >> which means that codas can only be a nasal with no place specification
> >> (which it has to get from a following stop) or a default consonant /h/.
> >> This is used to explain why English allows /tr/ as an onset but not /tl/
> >> - the /l/ requires a laterality specification that apparently can't
> >> coöccur with /t/ (but can with /p k/).
> >>
> >> /Even/ further down the rabbit hole starts to get into things like the
> >> autosegmental concept of 'timing tier' / 'skeletal tier', and things
> >> like vowels attaching to consonant slots, or stranger things like
> >> consonant slots that are empty but still demonstrably there, and some
> >> yet stranger things. If you want to know more about those, just go read
> >> the book (John Goldsmith's /Autosegmental and Metrical Phonology/) -
> >> it's worth every cent you'll spend on it.
> >>
> >> I hope that's not overwhelmingly much information! Ignore as much of
> >> this as you feel you need to, and just come back to it as you gain more
> >> familiarity with linguistic concepts.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 2018/04/24 21:57, Space Unicorn J wrote:
> >>> This is simple, I know a little about this but I wanted to know if
> >> someone
> >>> could help me to understand Syllable Structure and tell me some tips
> and
> >>> that, I think it’s a very interesting topic.
> >>>
> >>> I would like to know how to use this and examples of natural languages
> >> and
> >>> your Conlangs!!!
> >>>
> >>> Thx.
>