Ah. Then the sound is [ʎ̟]. (I.e. a palatal fricative but advanced.) Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 10, 2019, at 4:05 PM, Tony Harris <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > Tongue tip is near the *lower* teeth just because that's where it ends up in order to put the rest of the tongue where it needs to be. Sound production is done by placing the tongue body against the post-alveolar area. I could be persuaded the tongue body is actually touching the alveolar ridge (although when I compare other known alveolar sounds I can tell the tongue body isn't touching the same place), but it's definitely not retroflex *or* dental, unless the sheer fact of the tongue tip being near any teeth is enough to make it dental. > > I guess the lesson for me here is that I'm being way too perfectionist and looking for the exact, perfect, correct IPA symbol, when it doesn't really have to be that. > > It's also actually kind of cool that it seems phoneme I've had in Alurhsa since its conception doesn't seem to be in use by any natlang. Makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside. :) > > > >> On 19-02-10 18:35, David Peterson wrote: >> Wait, hang on. I misread. If the tongue tip is at or near the teeth it’s dental. If the tongue body is high, though, can’t you just say it’s [-anterior]? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>>> On Feb 10, 2019, at 3:12 PM, Tony Harris <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >>>> >>>> On 19-02-10 17:57, David McCann wrote: >>>> On Sun, 10 Feb 2019 14:07:50 -0500 >>>> Tony Harris <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I need some advice from the IPA experts here. >>>>> >>>>> However, studying my way through the latest IPA chart >>>>> (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8e/IPA_chart_2018.pdf) >>>>> I am at a loss how to represent a voiced antero-dorsal post-alveolar >>>>> lateral approximant. (And, as I've said before, I am not a trained >>>>> linguist, nor do I pretend to be one, so I hope I'm using the terms >>>>> in a meaningful way...) >>>> In many Australian languages you get a 4-way contrast generated by >>>> dental vs post-alveolar and apical vs laminal. For the laminal >>>> post-alveolar, Ladefoged used ḻ (underlined l). But don't forget that >>>> you can always use the nearest available symbol, so the palatal lateral >>>> ʎ could be used if Alurhsa doesn't have one. >>> Doesn't just using the nearest available symbol sort of defeat the purpose of the IPA being a way to accurately represent the sounds? I mean, wouldn't you have to then include a description that essentially says "for this language the symbol /x/ means this, not what the IPA says it means"? >>> >>> Maybe I'm being to perfectionist. Hmm.