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Quoth Jay Bowks:
> >Sounds good... I like "carer" much better than "guider".
>
> So do I Don, perhaps we should revisit this issue of the "c"
> and vote on it once more.

I was using the English translation to make my point; I certainly wasn't
suggesting that we use 'c' in the Novial translation.  Using Novial, the
above would read: 'Sounds good... I like "sorgere" much better than
"gidere".'

> >> "Li Sinioro es men sorgere."
>
> Ugh!

Why?  Just because "sorgere" isn't the exact word used in Latin?

> The ending "ore" for persons doing things is so international
> that it begs inclusion in my view. As biased as this may be.
> So be it. For the sake of stating my own opinion on the matter.

We have "ere".

Quoth Bruce R. Gilson:
> First all, we will not use the forbidden name of the Lord. I won't
> even type it out (ugh!) It is true that in the Schocken Bible (which I
> feel the best there is, but which has not reached the Psalms yet) does
> use YHWH without vowels in such places.

This is fine.  As a Catholic, I've typically only heard "Yahweh" in
certain hymns; the usual practice in Bibles is to translate these as
"the LORD".  The upshot of which is that it would probably be _wrong_ to
use any form of "Yahweh" (except _maybe_ YHWH) in Biblical translations.

> Second, I think that "pastore" means a pastor in NL. This may etymologically
> go back to the word for "shepherd" in Latin, but we can't use it in Psalm 23,
> which makes the Lord out to being a parish priest.

Right.

Quoth Jay Bowks:
> > will not use the forbidden name of the Lord. I won't even type it
> > out (ugh!) It is true that in the Schocken Bible (which I feel the
> > best there is, but which has not reached the Psalms yet) does use
> > YHWH without vowels in such places.
>
> Perhaps you should do some research and you will notice
> that in Ps. 23 you find evidence of where scribes made
> changes (134 to be exact) in the Heb. Scriptures of the
> personal name of God, Yahweh/Jehovah, and substituted
> it with Adonai, a title meaning lord. Why did they do this.
>
> Hey, it was their translation it was their Ball. If you want
> to dance in it feel free. But it is obviously a corrupted text.

It has long been the Judaic practice to see the tetragrammaton (YHWH)
and read aloud "Adonai".  When the Masoretes came up with their system
of vowel-pointing, the vowels they assigned to the tetragrammaton were
in fact those of "Adonai"; this has a couple of interesting
consequences, one being that "Yahweh" is only our best guess as to how
to assign correct vowels to the tetragrammaton, and the other that some
German in the 16th century or so whose Hebrew was good but Judaic
knowledge not so good, decided that God's name was "Jahowah" (note
consonants of YHWH, vowels of Adonai), from which we get "Jehovah".

I'm not sure what exactly you are calling a "corrupted text" here.  As
far as I can tell, the plan is to translate occurrences of YHWH in the
original Hebrew as something like "lord" in Novial.  (li Sinioro, I
assume.)

> > Second, I think that "pastore" means a pastor in NL. This may
> > etymologically go back to the word for "shepherd" in Latin, but we
> > can't use it in Psalm 23, which makes the Lord out to being a parish
> > priest.
>
> And the figurative pastore fits the bill. YHWH is my pastor.
> As it is he is my shepherd because I want to behave like his
> sheep, not because I am a physical sheep. Why not?

This definition strikes me as a bit circular, and possibly offensive to
those religions who use Psalm 23 but don't have parish priests, i.e.
Judaism.

> > "Li Siniore es men sorgere" ... that is my translation, that will go
> > onto the Web. It says what we want, without violating people's
> > religious sensibilities.
>
> "Li Siniore es men sorgere" Hmm. Well let's finish that Ugh and say it
> is Ugly! And I may add difficult for at-sight recognition.

Look, we can't just take the natural form for everything--we're not
Occidental or Interlingua or something.  As it is, "sorgere", meaning
"carer", seems like a rather good translation.

> Why "sinioro" in one and "siniore" in another, though?

Personal preference, I imagine.  The original Hebrew has a masculine
God, but a lot of people nowadays think of God as beyond gender.  I
don't think it matters too much.  (Although we _should_ pick one or the
other.)

--
-=-Don [log in to unmask]<http://www.cs.brown.edu/~dpb/>-=-
It's is not, it isn't ain't, and it's it's, not its, if you mean it
is.  If you don't, it's its.  Then too, it's hers.  It isn't her's.  It
isn't our's either.  It's ours, and likewise yours and theirs.
                        -- Oxford University Press, Edpress News