On Wed, 21 Oct 1998, Raymond A. Brown wrote:

> And this isn't exactly the "experiencer dative", but I reminds of the North
> Walian construction which in the colloquial language has replaced the
> preterite (simple past) still used in the South.  In the North they use
> 'ddaru' derived from 'darfod' "to happen" and the subject appears
> dative-like with the preposition 'i' "to", e.g. "They went" is -
> South Walian:  fe aethon nhw
>                   WENT   THEY  [initial 'fe' is a "positive" marker]
> North Walian: ddaru    iddyn nhw  fynd
>               HAPPENED TO    THEM A-GOING
> (Preposition 'i' conjugates and, of course, 'mynd' mutates after the
> 'dative subject'   :)
> It also means BTW colloquial north Walian can express all 'tenses' which
> are concerned with time only by means of auxiliary verbs.

Well, they certainly can do that in the south, too, Ray...I was taught
Swansea Welsh, and you do make heavy use of periphrastic constructions
like Wy wedy mynd, "I am after going" instead of using the conjugated
verb.  A feature of Welsh both north and south is the relegation of tense
to auxiliaries.  The ddaru iddyn construction, though, looks unfamiliar
to me, so this probably is a dialectical difference between north and
south Walian.  I'm about thirteen years away from speaking any
contemporary Welsh, having spent my formative years on the medieval stuff
where you do get a lot more of the conjugated forms.

Sally Caves
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Rin euab ouarjo vopy vytssema tohda uo zef:
ar al aippara brottwav; ad kemban aril yllefo
brotwav fenom; vybbrysan brotwav an; he ad
edirmerem brotwav kronom.

"A cat and a man are not all that different.
Both are on my bed; both lay their head on their
arm; both have mustaches; both purr when they