>Maybe this could be different, >maybe the list could turn into more of a medium for discussing the pros and >cons of this or that completed conlang, in which case languages like Quenya >or Lojban or Esperanto (Gott verhuete...) would get more time in the >spotlight than all these brand new ones -- but I get the feeling that most >people here would not want this, not because they have any negative feelings >towards mature conlangs, but only because they offer no possibility for >further development; it's the "constructing languages" mailing list ;-) I am not in the least suggesting that discussions of "constructing languages" are out of place, nor that theyt are excessive or unbalanced - the readership after all largely posts what it is interested in. I just get peeved at the occasional flame when someone DOES post about a completed conlang (I recall some sparkls recently about Speedwords, which is not exactly a well known or much debated candidate as an AUXLANG. And while I haven't been flamed for posting about Lojban, almost the merest mention of Esperanto seems to resul in some criticism. This bugs me and I'm not an Esperantist. But they have a lot of knowedge about what "works" in a conlang in the Esperanto community. >And where, would you say, are new conlangers to discuss their projects? I'm In Conlang of course %^) >I like my language very much, but I'm not going to scorn someone else's >budding >language because it is incomplete; I don't either. I just have trouble calling something a "language" when not only is it incomplete, but the creator does not ever intend to put the creation to the test of completeness. I was scorning the people who create multiple conlangs per year, not the people who are just starting a conlang project regardless of direction and intent. And even where I would be prone to "scorn" I have ameliorated my attiutude in that I certainly respect those people who are building a language as part of a world-building exercise and hence do not need a "full" language. I just think of this more as a kind of science fiction and/or fantasy writing project than purely a language project. I can appreciate SF that relies on incompeltely developed worlds (and languages). >Just where did Loglan and Lojban start? They were >once an infant languages as well, as all conlangs have been at some time. >No, I'm sure there are very few people on this list interested in reading >that sort of "criticism" @%^]> One reason I don't post much here. But I usually try to make any criticism constructive in any event. >Conlang might be a good place to go about doing so, but it depends >on whether the majority of list members want to tolerate such postings -- >conlang promotion of any kind borders on the sort of material usually >reserved for the Auxlang list. I am not so much seeking to promote a language on conlang, as to allow discussion of how to get from project to "real language". I figure that people who want to know about Lojban in any detail or will want to learn the language will go to our Web pages or go to the dedicated Lojban mailing list. But to give an example - our Lojban Web page was at the the time it was set up probably the most extensive and detailed of conlang pages outside the Esperanto community. I don't know if this is still the case. But recently people have asked me such questions like "why don't we have MANY web sites" or a "web ring", and I have to answer that it never occurred to me to have multiple Web sites when all the material is on one site. Amd I have no idea what would go on a Lojban Web ring if such a thing made sense. So what is good and bad on a conlang website? How many websites do you need and what is the difference between them? These questions probably don't apply to a conlang project that has no one yet learning the language, but they aren't AUXLANG topics either. >one possible solution might be to create a new >header prefix for the Conlang list so those who want to filter out such >threads can do so. Maybe you could even have your own prefix -- call it >LOJBAN :-) We don't need our own prefix when we have our own mailing list. And I want discussions of "the next step" for ANY conlang, not just Lojban. A separate keyword would be fine by me, though I never remember the set of keywords since I so seldom post. lojbab ---- lojbab [log in to unmask] Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: ftp.access.digex.net /pub/access/lojbab or see Lojban WWW Server: href="http://xiron.pc.helsinki.fi/lojban/" Order _The Complete Lojban Language_ - see our Web pages or ask me.