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On Sun, 20 Dec 1998, list James E. Hopkins wrote:

> Sabutovon ukhesea! Greetings to all!
>
> Padraic wrote concerning "real" Vulcan. How is that defined?  The work done by
> Mark Gardner is developed directly from that used in the movies but as I
> pointed out there are other Vulcan languages and at least one of them is also
> very well developed.

Well, I suppose defn. 1 would be the language(s) spoken on Vulcan. :-)  As
far as ST is concerned, Real Vulcan (TM) would be whatever Conlang is
given definitive sanction as the Vulcan language.  Much in the way
Okrand's Klingon is Real Klingon (TM).  What these others are, are various
conlangs that have the name "Vulcan"; usually in regard to some RPG;
usually in various stages of seriousness.  Don't get me wrong, I am not
trashing them at all!

>
> Kesh mogit salafi arsheypeyratatsit ra-onyata? Shall our attitude not be more
> universalist?

If by this you mean accepting, then of course.  I have not rejected _any_
of these conalngers' efforts.  You know the one about a house divided
against itself?  What good would I be doing to get on here and support
Brithenig or Teonath, but trash Cardassian and Vulcan?  The only thing
I've trashed have been the lame excuses for Vulcan dialogue in the movies.
As far as I've been able to tell, they are nothing but garbled nonsense
syllables poorly dubbed over lips clearly speaking English.

The Vulcan dialogue in the Pon Far episode and in STIII seem to me to be
real attempts (if sparse) to create a Vulcan language.

> I tend to value the work of all sister and brother conlangers regardless of
> the "canonicity" of the project. What I find to be the determining factor is
> the seriousness of the intent of the project and the amount of work put into
> it.

I'm right with you here!  I just believe that STI and II indicate about a
2% level of seriousness and 0% work put into it.  I did like the Vulcan
word for the alien (human) concept of lieutenant, being "Otlan".  It was
_probably_ just garbled nonsense, but I think perhaps a lucky hit upon how
one culture might try to capture the sounds of an alien language.

Padraic.

> Jim H