"Raymond A. Brown" wrote:

> To which Nik replied:
> ........
> >It's a debate over terminology, in effect.  Traditionally, nasals were
> >not considered stops, but nowadays some linguists reffer to them as
> >"nasal stops", meaning that air is stopped in the mouth, but it's still
> >nasal.  Traditional stops are then referred to as "oral stops".
> >Personally, I prefer the traditional definitions.
> Indeed, Tom was voicing a somewhat controversial view.  By no means all
> phonologists regard nasals as stops.  Like Nik, I am a 'traditionalist' on
> this issue as, indeed, is the redoubtable Mark Line who used to express his
> points somewhat forcibly on this list at one time :)

Eh.  It's all in how you view it.  I don't have any particularly strong
views about the matter.   That's the way they teach it at UT, but I
can easily see the other point of view.

> Indeed, if you want to be really, really picky, *voiceless* nasals cannot
> by any stretch of the imagination be voiced stops :)

No, certainly not.  But they could be viewed as stops, yesno? :)

> Personally I think debating whether nasals are a subdivision of stops will
> get us nowhere.

I totally agree.  It's all pretty much just another _Gedankensexperiment_.

Tom Wier <[log in to unmask]>
ICQ#: 4315704   AIM: Deuterotom
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"Cogito ergo sum, sed credo ergo ero."

There's nothing particularly wrong with the
proletariat. It's the hamburgers of the
proletariat that I have a problem with. - Alfred Wallace