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On Sat, 24 Apr 1999, FFlores wrote:

> Irina Rempt <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> > Well, I had to make up a lot of words, even "sun" (I did have "star",
> > "moon" and "planet") and there was one very awkward sentence in it.
>
> "Sun" is a very strange word to find oneself lacking it
> after a time.

Probably because I didn't start out (as seems to be a common way to
go about it) by translating the first chapter of Genesis :-)

> > tamustin   ili ruyen         len    le denayt
> > DIM.armies two to-right.side to-his they.go
> > "Two regiments go [over] to his side."
>
> Is that the standard order, noun + number?

Yes; the Valdyan "daily prayer" is called

   Tainene   Hestin   Moch
   god-ill-p prayer-p four
   the four  invocations of (or "to") the gods

or just "Hestin Moch" "the Four Invocations".

It consists of four parallel stanzas, each to one god. It's to be
found on my web page, currently in the "religion" file (check the
table of contents) but I've been learning better HTML so I'm about to
restructure it. I'll probably post it here after I finish all those
translation exercises :-)

> So "they go to his right side"? If they go to his left side,
> does that mean they go to his enemy's side?

They'll probably end up on his side but he won't be able to trust
them.

There's no taboo on being left-handed in Valdyas (no forced
right-handed writing or swordfighting; for swordfighting it's even
considered an advantage because nine out of ten of your opponents
have you on their wrong side, and you've had so many right-handed
opponents that *you* are prepared) but in the abstract sense the left
side does have a connotation of "not for real, not serious". Clerks
sign their copies with _esh <furei> r.r._ (for _rainei ruyi_) "by the
right hand of <name>" even if it's been written with the left hand.
King Vegelin the Great's historian, who started out as an apprentice
clerk at the age of nine or so, wrote a book of folk tales in her old
age and called it _Mailei Hallei rainei lhayi gylsin_ "Book of
Maile's [daughter] Halla's Left Hand".

> > cyne      airenan lushean hyrna gylat
> > presently ruler   message other writes
> > "Then the general writes another message."
> >
> > (meaning "a different message", not "one more message")
>
> Very interesting distinction.

It also exists in Dutch: "nog een bericht" (one more message) and
"een ander bericht" (a different message). My aunt, who is English,
had a lot of trouble with that when she was learning Dutch, asking
people whether they wanted "een ander kopje thee" (English: "another
cup of tea", but the Dutch means "a different cup of tea") and got
answers like "no, thanks, the one I've got is perfectly all right".

> If I understood right what you said once about _lea_,
> it's not passive voice but an impersonal construction,
> is it?

Yes, exactly. I finished the writeup of the impersonal construction
last night and it's a matter of days before it appears on my web
page. I've taken to calling this use of it "pseudo-passive", though.

> How do you pronounce <gyrn>?

I pronounce it "gyrn" :-)

/g/ as in "gull", /y/ is {high, central, unrounded} (small i with a
stroke in IPA, i-circumflex in Romanian, small 61 in Russian), /r/ is
a velar trill (Valdyans *can* do the thing with the tongue but
consider it an affectation) but pronounced as little more than a flap
before another consonant, and /n/ the usual voiced alveolar nasal.

In some dialects /i/ and /y/ are both pronounced [i] (fronting the
/y/) but /i/ palatalizes preceding velar consonants and /y/ doesn't.

> Very nice work. You got an A. :)

Thanks :-)

   Irina


            Varsinen an laynynay, saraz no arlet rastinay.
                     [log in to unmask] (myself)
     http://www.xs4all.nl/~bsarempt/irina/frontpage.html (English)
    http://www.xs4all.nl/~bsarempt/irina/backpage.html (Nederlands)