At 12:33 am -0400 27/4/99, Nik Taylor wrote:
>"Raymond A. Brown" wrote:
>> Unfortunately, however, 'let' can still be used with the meaning of
>> 'permit' and there must, I suspect, still be the odd occasion when, e.g. a
>> translator into French must decide whether "let us go!" is 'Laissez-nous
>> partir!' or simply 'Partons!'
>Indeed, that's the distinction between "let us" and "let's" in spoken
>English.  Let us go = Permit us to go; Let's go = 1st person plural
>imperative.  In fact, the only time I've ever heard "let us" used for
>the "imperative" sense is in certain formal registers like church

I'd thought of that, but it doesn't in fact work for all varieties of
English.  "Laissez-nous partir" is _always_ "Let us go" - but while I agree
"Partons" would more often be "Let's be off!" the longer form "Let us be
off!" is by no means confined to formal registers in this neck of the
woods.  Down south in Britland we tend to be slower & drawl (tho not I'm
told to the extent of southern USA, but that's only hear-say ;)  and though
probably less common it would not be unusual to hear the longer form.

Nik's reference to church language (which in my experience in the last 10 -
20 years has been that it strives to ape the informal, contemporary style
;)  reminds me of one of the most well known instances of the 3rd person
imperatives in Greek and these are traditionally translasted without the
use of 'let', namely:

hagiasthe:to:        to onoma sou
hallow+PASS+3RD-IMP  the name of-you

elthato:      he: basileia sou
come+3RD-IMP the kingdom of-you

gene:the:to:            to thele:ma sou, ho:s en ourano:i kai epi ge:s
come-into-being+3RD-IMP the will of-you, as   in heaven   even on earth

So these can be rephrased with preceeding 2nd person pronouns?  "Allow your
name to be hallowed"?  I think not.

Theology may not be my strongest point, but I was under the impression that
God had never put any hinderance in the way of us honoring His name; I
thought the problem was rather among us humans (assuming one believes in
God and sees a problem here).


At 5:15 pm -0400 26/4/99, Ed Heil wrote:
>Lexicon and syntax are not really separate components; "syntax" is
[etc. snipped - but much appreciated]


Don't disappear, Ed - I like what you say  :)