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Bjorn Vang Jensen wrote:
 
> Chritian wrote:
No, that one didn't actually :-)
 
> > Provided that the newbies being educated to this standard are clearly
> > made aware of their somewhat suspect new-found knowledge, that they
> > _must_ continue the learning curve, I have no problem with it either.
> >
> > I do have a problem with believing that every instructor will
> > always do this.
>
> I haven't done a flame in a long time, and I thought I was above it by now,
> but I've had enough!
 
> You would be absolutely right in not believing that _every_ instructor will
> do that. Why this is even worth mentioning, however, is beyond me. There is
> NO teaching field that I can think of where you can expect EVERY MEMBER of
> the field to do the same thing! For every great history teacher someone had,
> someone else had a lousy history teacher, et cetera.
 
May I, ever so respectfully, suggest that history teachers usually are
not in a position to kill you? :-)
 
> If it sounds like I am upset, it is because I am. You take every opportunity
> to rib diving instructors, yet you have no teaching experience of your own.
 
I consider that I would make a _very_ bad dive instructor. I've probably
said this before.
 
> You constantly set the most stringent requirements, yet modify your position
> on those requirements virtually every time you are challenged.
 
Examples? Prove that? Quote me? BTW, I am the opposite of The Feeeesh, I
delete about everything.
 
Usually I am challenged by Strike during these affrays. If you think
that he _doesn't_ know how to plunge the blade, you're a bit of an
innocent, laddie (I'm allowed to say that, age you know <g>). I happen
to know that you are not. ;-)
 
> Whether you
> were certified by Jacques Cousteau or by Joe Instructor, it would be
> refreshing to see something from you on this subject that didn't always end
> in a stab at the instructor population as a whole, especially given that you
> are taking stabs at something you know little about.
 
i) Neither thankfully, she was much more beautiful than either of your
examples, certainly preceded _at least_ one of them. :-)
 
ii) A contradiction in terms. Given your above premises I can provide
neither. :-)
 
Uhh, did I but recently talk about a local duo of Diving Instructors
that I much respect? Within that same post perhaps? Who, perhaps, bent
the "rules"?
 
Yet I have sometimes _seen_  or _experienced_ the results of bad instruction?
 
There is now an agenda of things I could produce as examples. Yes, the
ususal ones, but they are not pertinent to the subject.
 
My (independent) club has had a rule for several years now (understand
that the club is entirely divorced from _any_ training agency, is
entirely independent). It is that any, we do not care about C Cards/Log
Books, whatever, new member is checked out by the more experienced
divers of the club. THEN, and ONLY THEN, do we decide on that diver's
level of expertise. In our experience its a pretty bloody good rule!
Mainly because it has worked, every time.
 
> Bottom line: There are good instructors and bad instructors, good and bad
> actors, good and bad priests, bricklayers, taxi drivers and engineers. Where
> is the news in that ? You can change anything you want, Christian; Laws,
> standards, teaching examinations, annual renewal requirements, rules and
> regulations. But people are people, and people take the short-cut every time
> they can get away with it. Can you change THAT?
 
If you look, please, more carefully at everything that I say on this
subject it all has to do with your above comment  that "people are
people, and people take the short-cut every time they can get away with
it". I wonder how often I have used the expression "lowest common
denominator" recently. Feesh, where are you when we need you?
 
Bjorn, as you say, there are instructors and there are instructors. Just
like the bad of everything there are bad here, as you acknowledge.
 
Its just that, IMO and , no, its not humble, there are TOO MANY bad
instructors out there. This would be acceptable BUT ONLY if they were
teaching the aforementioned history rather than the use of a life
support system.
 
> So what if diving is an activity that most people don't think long and hard
> about before venturing into ? I bet a lot of list members didn't (myself
> included, I started with an intro-course out of sheer boredom on a
> vacation). Like Strike said, those who want to learn more will seek out that
> knowledge. Those who don't really want to learn will retain enough to pass
> the exam, then gradually forget it as they stay out of the water for too
> long. Annual recertification is one possibility, but as a safety measure the
> system has more holes than a sieve. Common sense and responsibility for
> one's own actions are far better in the long run.
 
I was a pretty good spearo (sorta good?) before someone got me to
breathe air underwater. Nevertheless I had a pretty good idea of the
sea. Yet you say "Common sense and responsibility for one's own actions
are far better in the long run". Sure if people are advised of both. Are
they? Commonly? Universally? I doubt it. Again, it depends on whether
its a history lesson or a lesson on using a life support system.
 
> If you think that the general population of instructors is really as bad as
> your frequent stabs would indicate, then YOU have the option to do something
> about it, if you think that you are up to it (and it would appear that you
> do). Step up to the plate, and redefine the standards of instructing (and
> human nature while you're at it). Teach people according to your own
> standards. It will earn you a lot more respect than armchair theorizing.
 
As above, I doubt that I have the ability to teach. I think strongly on
that role of _teaching_. Hell, I was only explicit on it recently and on
this subject.
 
> Like I said, I just had enough. I don't want a war, and if one erupts, I'm
> not participating. I've said my piece.
 
My history here (apart from when I first arrived, big mistake on my
part) is similar. :-)
 
But I still don't think that you "flamed".
 
Christian