> -----Original Message----- > From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On > Behalf Of Nik Taylor > Sent: Friday, November 5, 1999 6:04 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list CONLANG > Subject: Re: Allophony > > > Rob Nierse wrote: > > What is more likely? > > /ti/ => [tsi] ot [ci]? > > Both are equally likely. Consider Japanese, where /ti/ became [tSi], > while in Spanish at one stage, /tj/ became /tsj/, as in /na'tjon/ --> > /na'tsjon/ --> /nasjon/ or /naTjon/ (nacio'n) Speaking of Japanese, does anyone know how /tu/ became [tsM] ([M] is an unrounded [u])? I had thought maybe the /M/ was originally a front vowel, but then how does one account for the presence of /i/? As for Spanish, the change /tj/ > /tsj/ > /ts/ was universal in the Romance languages, and apparently happened well before they broke apart. However, I think the word <nacio'n> is a learned borrowing from Latin; words which proceeded normally from Latin without learned influence seem to have lost the [j] in [tsj], thus: Latin <rationem> ("reason") /ra"tsjone/ > /ra"dzjone/ > /ra"dzon/ > /ra"zon/ > /ra"son/ (and in Castille, > /ra"Ton/) <razo'n>. I just read that changes very similar to the ones in Romance also happened in Greek prehistoricly, including the change in some dialects of /tj/ to /ss/.